ICW: Peres Owino, Writer and Actor

Earlier this week I got the chance to attend a screening and Q&A of African Queens: Njinga, and the next day I got to follow that up with a sit down chat with one of the writers of the series, Peres Owino. We spoke about how she got into the arts growing up in Kenya, coming on board this project, the importance of community and diversity, and what being Black means to her. Read/Listen below, and scroll to the end to see Jada Pinkett Smith’s answer to my question from the Q&A.

Brianna (TBP)
So, hi, I'm Brianna from The Black Project and I am here with..

Peres Owino
Peres Owino

Brianna (TBP)
Who is the writer of the soon to drop on Netflix, African Queens. Season one is all about Queen Njinga. I would love to know at what point did you come on board this project? And what made you say yes?

Peres Owino
Well, I'm not quite sure the genesis of it, but I do know that it involved Jada Pinkett Smith and Nutopia. So that was the first pairing that I believe happened. And then the next pairing that happened, of course, was to get the writers. And they were very specific that they wanted African writers. And then how the process goes is that then they reach out to agents, and then agents, of course, will send script samples, and then they would meet with the writers they want to meet with. And so that's how NneNne and I got picked. And then I also did a call with Westbrook, you know, trying to get an understanding of what it is that they were anticipating what they wanted to get out of the show. Then after that, we both signed up. And here we are,

Brianna (TBP)
Here we are!

Peres Owino
It’s not sexy is it!

Brianna (TBP)
(laughs) Such a, “this is exactly what happened”. There must have been so much research thrown your way that you did yourself as well, I'd love to know what the most interesting, or perhaps your favourite thing that you learnt about Njinga was on this journey.

Peres Owino
There's so many things, so many, so many things, most of which I cannot say because they are in the series. That's the problem. But the one thing that I did love about and I think I can say this, is that she began to do, in my opinion, what she wanted to do at the age of what, she was in her 40s?

Brianna (TBP)
Good for her!

Peres Owino
In her 40s. And so for me, I was just like, wow, what - that in itself is so inspiring to anybody that you can it doesn't matter what age you are, you have that dream, keep going for it. You have that purpose, keep going for it. Because I don't think hers was really a dream, it was more like a purpose. You know, you just keep going for it. And she did that well into her 80s.

Brianna (TBP)
That's amazing. Yeah. There's so many people kind of like that. Today as well. You think like that we consider African queens, Oprah. She didn't start until she was older. That's amazing. She's like the blueprint for everyone that's come since.

Peres Owino
Yeah. I feel like she's like the first woman who was like, listen, it doesn't matter how old you are. You want to do this, lift that? Lift it, and keep pushing. And she did it. And then she actually opened the door for other female rulers because she was the first female ruler of a kingdom.

Brianna (TBP)
That's incredible. And what's incredible to me is I didn't know a thing about her until I got the press release for this come through. Yeah, she's the first female ruler of a kingdom and never mentioned. It's astounding.

Peres Owino
We are here, so let's have this conversation. The world has been inundated by one story. Yeah, it's been inundated. And so it is - I'm grateful to Netflix, I'm grateful to nutopia, Jada Pinkett Smith specifically for seeing that there are other stories out there. Why don't we look at what else is out there? Who else is a queen, besides, you know, Victoria and Elizabeth? Yes, who else? And there are many. And these are just the African ones, what's happening in Asia, what is happening in Latin America, the world is filled with so many wonderful and inspiring people. And I think if you cannot get it on your screen, then I just do encourage people to just be curious about the world be curious about other people.

Brianna (TBP)
So we already know season two is going to be about Cleopatra that's been announced. Hopefully fingers crossed, we get more seasons, is there anyone that you have in mind that you're like, I want to tell their story?

Peres Owino
I don't want to say a name. Because I know, I don't want to say a name. That is a name that somebody very important has already said - there are people, there's people, I just can’t name them.

Brianna (TBP)
(Laughs) Okay! So we've heard from quite a lot of the cast and the crew that this is one of, if not the most diverse sets that they've ever worked on in their whole career. I'd love to know what for you is the benefit and kind of the enrichment of walking onto a set and walking into work every day, and being surrounded by such diversity?

Peres Owino
There's something I want to say about this diversity. Okay. When it comes to the story of Njinga, really to be honest, we know that that is the beginning of the story of the African diaspora right, those people who are left behind and those people who were taken. So if you're doing a story like this, and imagine, you have Africans from across the continent, you have Nigeria, you have Angola, you have South Africans in that space. And then you have Africans who are in the diaspora, you have Africans from Europe, you have Africans from the United States, you have Africans from the islands, all coming to tell the story. This is in a sense, there's a homecoming about it that I think is so powerful. And I think that in order to actually detail it correctly, you do need the diaspora. You know what I mean, because it is all our stories. And then to then have the people like Ben Fox, sitting in and watching, that is to have another group of people in here as you're celebrating yourself. And that I think, is the beauty of diversity, it’s being curious about each other, making space for each other to tell you who they are. I think that's beautiful.

Brianna (TBP)
I think it's really beautiful, too. And it ties in a bit to a question I always finish with, we'll come back to it later, which is I always ask people, What does being black mean to you? And the reason I asked that is because I think if you're outside of the diaspora, sometimes there's an idea that we're a monolith, that we're all the same, that we'll all have the same answer to that question. But we don't. And it's come from that point of Njinga’s time, of what happened when some were left behind, some were taken. Where were they taken to, what are those stories? So I’m glad you said that, because it does tie us into that final question. But first, we're gonna go light for a little minute. We're gonna do some silly little questions.

Peres Owino
I really wanted that question. What does it mean to be black? What does black mean to you? I have a deep one for you now.

Brianna (TBP)
Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited. Okay, so the light questions are, if Njinga was a modern day woman, what would be her top three artists on her Spotify wrapped?

Peres Owino
Beyonce one. That one just rolled out. Who else? Oh, I'm hoping she would, I'm hoping she'd say Fireboy, I’m hoping she’d say Fireboy because I love Fireboy. This is not really about Njinga, this is really about me right now. Okay, Fireboy. Hold on. There's so many, Rihanna, Davido, Aye yai yai. Can she do a mixtape?

Brianna (TBP)
Yes!

Peres Owino
She’ll do a mixtape, she don't pick one person and put it on Pandora and just let it spin. Then Mary J. Blige just popped up.

Brianna (TBP)
Oh, Mary J. Blige! Oh, yeah. Have you heard of Gabrielle? Oh, you have to listen to Gabrielle. She's like Britain's Mary J. Blige. She's amazing. She's got an eyepatch. Always has an eyepatch.

Peres Owino
I love her already.

Brianna (TBP)
Yeah, she's brilliant. You should check out Gabrielle.

Peres Owino
So many, just think of all these formidable singers. I love Fireboy though.

Brianna (TBP)
I think she would like Fireboy.

Peres Owino
I think she would. His music is so, I don't know there's something about this man's music that’s just…

Brianna (TBP)
I think she'd also like, I don't know, you probably might not have heard of him but Akala. Akala does like spoken word poetry and also rap. And he’s British, he’s an activist as well as a spoken word artist and I feel like she’d probably be into him.

Peres Owino
She would be. I swear to god, she's gonna do a mixtape. There's not, there's no way you can just have one or three.

Brianna (TBP)
Yeah no, she’s gonna have a whole bunch, she’s just gonna have to have a playlist.

Peres Owino
Yeah, that's what it is. She’s gonna have a playlist. Yeah, because I have a playlist like if you ask me what my favourite musician is, I don't know. I have a playlist. Yeah.

Brianna (TBP)
What would her Instagram handle be? And would she have been live tweeting Rihanna’s Super Bowl halftime show.

Peres Owino
Okay, I would have just, I was gonna say The Queen. You know, I didn't watch the Super Bowl show.

Brianna (TBP)
(At this point, the interview derailed slightly as I filled Peres in on the half-time show, and Rihanna's pregnancy reveal.)

Peres Owino
I just have to just say, I just love how she celebrates life. That girl lives so fearlessly.

Brianna (TBP)
She does.

Peres Owino
And there's a beauty in that.

Brianna (TBP)
She lives for herself as well.

Peres Owino
Unapologetically. There's a beauty. Can you imagine where humanity would be like if we unshackled everyone?

Brianna (TBP)
Could you imagine, what a beautiful world?

Peres Owino
Yeah.

Brianna (TBP)
So that's the takeaway live more like Rihanna! So I want to ask you a bit about you as well if that's okay. So where did you grow up? And how accessible were the arts to you?

Peres Owino
Well, I grew up in Kenya. And the good thing about growing up in Kenya was I was part of this thing called - When you were in high school, you could be a member of the drama club in your high school, because Kenya had this thing called the Kenya national festivals, which means all the schools would compete in five different categories. There was traditional African dance. There was an English poem, a Swahili poem, which those are the two national languages, and English play and a Swahili play. So I was part of the drama club for the four years I was there. In fact, most people will say that the only thing I did was I was in the drama club. And so creating and being creative started for me started very early, because everything you did, you can't go to like a bookstore and pick up a Shakespeare play and do that. Everything had to be original. Everything. So when you go to the nationals, you have like 50 schools with 50 original plays.

Brianna (TBP)
That's incredible!

Peres Owino
Yes. So it was just this whole, they create this culture of thinking outside the box, but also thinking for yourself and creating from your own imagination, so that by the time I came to the United States, and I was like, now doing theatre and the performing arts, it was already a muscle that had already been working out for four years in high school.

Brianna (TBP)
I love that there was also - it wasn't just English, because I'm half Nigerian, and really sadly, in Nigeria, they’re losing the national languages, like young people aren't learning Yoruba in the same way. Because the goal is get to America, get to Europe, get to England, so it's just focusing on what can we do in English, which I think is devastating.

Peres Owino
Yeah. And that's, and that is why the arts are important, because if it's not for people like us, the creators, the artists, the screenplay writers who say, Okay, I'm gonna write the screenplay, but I need my actors to speak in Yoruba. So now, people are like, wait, I want to get into the arts, I want to go to the United States, yes, I want to act for this person, Yes. But I need to speak Yoruba. Hold it. And look, I've lived in the United States for almost 20 years. My accent is still people are like, Yeah, you can tell I am not an American. That was intentional.

Brianna (TBP)
Interesting, so you've chosen to stay very much African?

Peres Owino
It was intentional yes. I was intending, I intentionally stayed African. Because that is the space that I have been called to fill. I've not been called to take somebody else's space. I have been called to fill the space of an African in America. Yeah. That's the space I hold.

Brianna (TBP)
I've never heard anyone say that before. So often the narrative is, I had to lose my accent. I had to change my hair. I had to do this. I had to assimilate in some sort of way. I really love that you said no, no.

Peres Owino
No. And this ties into that last question you're going to ask.

Brianna (TBP)
Yeah, yeah. Which we are so close to getting to. So just before that, the question is, how did you get into screenwriting. How did you make that step?

Peres Owino
Well, because, so remember I was already doing it in Kenya, but I was really writing before when I went to high school, so I'd just be writing books and I'd watch shows and I'd write screenplays by hand, of course, and I have all those. I can't read them now, they're so atrocious. But then I moved to Wisconsin. And I was studying theatre in the performing arts. So I was mostly focusing on performance and writing plays. And then when I moved to LA, I was doing plays, I would take like Shakespearean plays and do like African adaptations of them. And like I did Macbeth, we did, like Idi Amin, Macbeth as Idi Amin. And we did Hamlet, Princess of Nubia. So I started early on to create content that I wanted to see.

Brianna (TBP)
I would love to see, the Princess of Nubia as Hamlet.

Peres Owino
Yeah, Hamlet as a girl. Because I wanted to play Hamlet. And I was like, look, I'm not going to wait for somebody. Yeah. I'm going to create the show, find a place to stage it and play Hamlet. And I just I think, because of Kenya, my education, I learned early on to take the initiative. Yeah, do what you want to do. Get where you need to get to everybody, everything else, whatever you need is going to meet you along the way. But you've got to be walking. You know, you can't just sit there on the bench and say "well I'm trying to get to-" so start walking! And so then I was in LA, and a friend of mine was, she just looked at me one day and she said, you're in LA, what's with these plays?

Both
(Laughs)

Peres Owino
What is this, like, write screenplays! So I started to read. I was reading a lot of screenplays, you know, and I would write a screenplay, and I would send it to her, she'd give me notes and send it back and I'd write, and then. And then I wrote the basket weaver. I was like, okay. But then the funny thing about the basket weaver is I was supposed to go audition for a play. And it was a really dark play, you know, back in the place where all African stories had to do with civil war. It was so dark and dreary, and I woke, I prepared my audition, like got up the next day, and I could not get up from the couch to go out my door to go audition for this. And I remember being called and they're like, where are you? And I said, I'm sorry. This is not the story of Africa that I want to tell. And I started writing The Basket Weaver on that day. And it went and won the New York Women in Film and Television, that competition that's sponsored by Meryl Streep. So that was the first thing we did. But then I realised from that, that not only am I called to write, but I'm called to write a specific type of narrative about Africa. So like that, one of the things that taught me was you got to pay attention to what's happening in your life because you're being spoken to by the ancestors, you just need to listen. And so then I just continued writing screenplays and I would read and do masterclasses, Aaron Sorkin, I mean, I was reading and studying wherever I could, because I didn't have the money to go to school. So I buy books or go online. And that's literally how I did it.

Brianna (TBP)
That's amazing. It just shows that if you want it, and you work for it, and your talent is enough, eventually banging on that door will break it down.

Peres Owino
Because what do they say the world is filled with talented people, unaccomplished talent? Something of the sort, something to do with talent that doesn't get realised. Because talent is not enough.

Brianna (TBP)
You have to have the drive.

Peres Owino
Yeah, it's not enough.

Brianna (TBP)
Like you say, you have to be walking.

Peres Owino
Yeah, you have to be walking. It's not enough. I remember once I was in LA, and I had gone to, because when you're in LA the one thing you want is an agent. So I did this talk, it was Charles King. And this was back when he was still with WME. And Charles King said, don't look for us. You do what you do, we'll find you. And I stopped looking for an agent on that day. And something about how he said it resonated with me and I said, go to the work. They'll find you. And I just went and worked.

Brianna (TBP)
How long did it take after hearing him say that and saying I'm not doing -

Peres Owino
15 years later? Literally, literally, well, you got to grind.

Brianna (TBP)
But it's worth it. But it's worth it. Look at us now sat in the Langham.

Peres Owino
It’s work and I think that's the thing people think when you think Hollywood you think glamour, Hollywood is work, it's a lot of work. Everybody is putting in a lot of hours. How long are you in the red carpet, what, 5, 10 minutes? How long were you in the editing room? Two weeks, three?

Brianna (TBP)
Yeah, I mean, the moment is quick.

Peres Owino
It's quick, very quick, because then it's, then it's off to what's your next thing, what's the next thing, what's your next thing?

Brianna (TBP)
But that I think is so why, the people that are successful and stay successful are the ones that do it because they love what they do

Peres Owino
Exactly.

Brianna (TBP)
Not the ones that are seeking fame.

Peres Owino
Fame! Yeah, it's fascinating how it takes - screenwriting is the loneliest thing you could do. It's just you and these characters, and you bang it out, and you're getting up and you're doing those lines out loud. And you're like, I'm not feeling the emotion and you get up and you rewrite, because they say screenwriting is rewriting, because that's what it is, is you rewrite like I have - if you look at people who do this work? And if you ask them, let me see your revisions. And you just see folders. Because once you get those notes, you get the studio notes, you get the network notes, notes, notes, notes, notes, notes, notes, notes, and you and you have to, that's one of the key things about being a screenwriter, you have to know how to take notes. Right? It's not about your ego.

Brianna (TBP)
No, leave that at the door.

Peres Owino
Yes. The people who are giving your notes are your first audience. And they're telling you something is not making sense. So it requires a lot of humility. You have to humble yourself. But the most important thing it takes is the understanding that everybody wants this to be good. Period, full stop. Yeah, nobody hates you. Nobody's trying to make you do too much work. They want it to be good. That transformed my brain. They want it to be good. They want you to succeed. They want to succeed. So they're removing - and I remember one of my mentors, Bridget Wiley, she's an executive at CBS, she said, I'm your first audience, so when I give you a note, I'm saying something here is not making sense. We can talk about it. But when you put your foot down and say, No, I'm going to do this, you're missing something that you've been told by your audience. And I've learned to pay attention to that. Now there are some notes, that you learn which to take, which not to take, but also you learn how to explain what you were trying to do. And they'll be like, oh, I missed that, or they'll be like, oh, that's not clear. Then you get into a dialogue and you perfect it. It's a team effort.

Brianna (TBP)
It's the understanding that you might be writing it on your own.

Peres Owino
Yeah.

Brianna (TBP)
But you're not creating it

Both
on your own.

Peres Owino
Yes, it's a team effort. You got producers in there, you got to actors who are going to come in with notes. You got director's going to come in with notes, the DPS. Because they say a screenplay is written four times, right, the screenwriter, the director, the actors, and the editor.

Brianna (TBP)
How long does that kind of process take like for African queens? You know, when did you start the writing progress for it?

Peres Owino
I think it has come out a year, maybe a year plus after we finish. So like when we're watching it, NneNne and I, we're like "ohh, that line! I forgot about that line." Because by the time it's coming out I've written two features, and two pilots already, different shows. So by the time this is coming out, you're like, you're finished.

Brianna (TBP)
It's so distant from your mind!

Peres Owino
You, it's almost like relay, you hand it over.

Brianna (TBP)
So was it during lockdown?

Peres Owino
Yeah, they were both written during the lockdown. Yeah. So we were literally working with the UK and Mozambique. We were all on zooms.

Brianna (TBP)
How poetic is that though someone's in Mozambique, someone's in the UK, someone's in the US all people that like we were saying have come from being taken or being left there. And you're writing a story.

Peres Owino
NneNne was in Mozambique, I was in Los Angeles. And then the rest of nutopia was in the UK. And of course, Jada and the team was also in LA. So it was spread out.

Brianna (TBP)
It really was a global effort to make this thing happen. And yeah, that's incredible. Okay, so the question that you have been waiting to answer is, what does being black mean to you? And how, if at all, did diving into Njinga's story add to, or change your understanding of what it means to be black?

Peres Owino
See, I would not say what does black mean to me, I would say what does being an African mean to me? Because for me, it's African first, because Africa is the source. So for me being an African, I am the source. And I carry that. And I carry that with a lot of humility. And because I know that Africa is the source of all mankind, I understand my purpose is to love all mankind, first and foremost. And to figure out a way to build bridges. Links between Africans and African Americans, how do I help all my people come home? And I take that, that's why I'll do Njinga, that's why I'll do Bound: Africans versus African Americans, that's why I'll do Brother Abraham. It's this understanding that as an African, my job is not to join the conversation that is going on and participate in it. But to figure out how to translate it, twist that conversation, change it around, so that we as a society, don't see the differences in us, but see the similarities and find our way back to each other. Because right now, when I look at the world, this is going to hell in a handbasket. You know, there needs to be a change in the conversation? What is of value? We have to change that you cannot have some people making $160 billion, and there's homelessness around the streets of Los Angeles. That is crazy to me. Do you know the word homeless does not exist in any African language? Sit with that. I bet you if you go to Asia, and you look at the old old languages, the word homeless is probably very new. Because what does it mean to have a home, to not have a home? How is that even a possibility? Yeah, how do you not have a home?

Brianna (TBP)
Basic necessity of human life!

Peres Owino
Like, how do you not have a home, because to be homeless is to be without family period, full stop, like there's not a single person. So when you come from Africa with the sense of community, everyone is home.

Brianna (TBP)
The idea of "it takes a village" is literally born in Africa.

Peres Owino
Yeah. Everybody, like if you see a child on the street, children in Africa, they know like if they're hungry they will come up to a woman and say Mama. You have been labelled now, you're mother, "Yes?" "I need some food." You feed. Because he's called you mother. Where did we lose this passion for our own species?

Brianna (TBP)
It's so true.

Peres Owino
What happened?

Brianna (TBP)
It is so true.

Peres Owino
Yeah, that's always my question that, you know it's great. Yeah, I love dogs love whatever, oh, that's great. But do you know how you transform this entire planet, if you just taught human beings to love each other, if we just fixed that?

Brianna (TBP)
I would love to know how the culture shock moving from Africa where that is, it is such a sense of community, of people first, of helping each other and then moving to literally the epicentre of capitalism, where other human beings do not matter more than the profit line. What was that like mentally to adjust to?

Peres Owino
Well, the thing about it was when I moved to the United States, I went to the Midwest first, okay, the Midwest is a very different place. Because I was in Green Bay, Wisconsin, the Midwest to me humanised America because I came into it with my own ideas of what America was, you know. Los Angeles, New York, Miami, roller blades, expensive cars. When you land in Green Bay, Wisconsin, there's cows and cheese. You know, and there's people just living their daily lives and you're like, oh my God. What? Slow, just people. And, and like I said, it literally humanised America. I was like, Wait a minute. So everywhere is not just fast cars and greed is good. So then when you go into the United States, this idea you also have of America disappears, because now they're humans, just like you. Now your needs and wants are the same. So you're like, okay, we can roll. So what we're trying to do, hey, stop what's going on, Brittany, what are we trying to do? You know, and I wish most of us could realise that there's more of us who want something better. Yeah, there's more of us. And that's where we keep fighting each other. Because if you notice, it's people who are falling, that are grasping. If you're standing still you don't need to grasp for anything, the graspers are the people who are falling, they're falling out of the system. Yeah, there's more of us doing that.

Brianna (TBP)
Far more of us.

Peres Owino
Way more of us. And if you could figure out how to get, to make sure that all of us are taken care of? That's the whole community thing. You have to take care of the least among you.

Brianna (TBP)
Because they're the foundations, I always say you can plaster over the cracks of a house. But if you haven't solidified those foundations, the walls are going to come down anyway. So if you're not taking care of those that are at the bottom of your society, it doesn't matter what's happening at the top, it's not going to work.

Peres Owino
And you know, what is interesting about fear is this. I think it's a Western thing, though, where they always say fear is a bad thing. Right? Don't be afraid. But if you think about the things that humanity has created, fear has helped us create a lot of stuff. Yeah. So fear is not a bad thing. It's how you use it, or what it informs you to do.

All four episodes of African Queens: Njinga are out now on Netflix!